February 21, 2012
Universal: Medicare for all

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Various Republicans are pressing the U.S. Supreme Court to rule the 2010 Affordable Care Act unconstitutional because it requires millions of "working poor" Americans to buy health insurance from commercial carriers.

Surprisingly, a crusading liberal Charleston reformer and activist has joined a Supreme Court brief demanding exactly the same thing.

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    46 Comments
    Posted By: joe46and2
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    On a net basis, the US is the worldest poorest country: 16 trillion dollars in debt.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 8:25:03 am

    Posted By: dumb hillbilly
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    If those other countries have such superior healthcare why do those who can afford it come here for treatment? Could it be because coming here allows them to choose their own healthcare rather than accept what their government choose for them?
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 8:46:41 am

    Posted By: smarbap
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    Like it or not, there are only so many health care providers. Expanding the pool of patients would indeed result in diminished access for all.

    Furthermore, any governmental intervention that limits or controls the levels of compensation that physicians can earn reduces the incentive to become a physician in the first place.

    Then, factor in the mass retirement of those older physicians who would rather not become government employees so late in their careers, and the quality AND accessibility of healthcare becomes greatly diminished.

    To believe that politicians actually care about your health care constitutes grounds for having your voting privileges revoked.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 9:47:00 am

    Posted By: MU4WVU2
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    Where are we going?

    If government is the provider, it relieves all industry/unions from providing the coverage obligation. The industries, like AUTO(UAW) or coal(UMWA)would be relieved of the cost and the government(people/taxpayer)will pick up the cost. Wow, that would be some kinda deal for whom??? Industry/unions could thrive in that atmosphere.

    Taxpayers/people pay the price in $$$ and longer wait lines. Some of the European countries, just this AM, are talking about privatizing some of their health care to make it more timely available because too many of their people are dying due to wait time to get access to a Dr. Some of US wants to adopt a system that Europeans are running away from??? Wow.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 10:28:46 am

    Posted By: RAD
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    The problem with the general public comments and their misinformation regarding a single payer sytem as the answer to our health care crisis, is that they are from people who have not done the research on health care reform. Yes it is necessary to expand the provider base. Sorry, it is a myth citizens from other countries prefer the U.S. health care system. The administrative costs in our private insurance system which is $400 billion a year, enough to cover every American, would have to be altered to take the for-profit motive and perverse practices out of the picture. If those who have submitted comments wish to learn the real truths about lowering costs, increasing access, providing equality and comprehensive benefits, they should go to Physicians for National Health Program,(pnhp.org) or HealthCare Now.orgin addition to the creditable books by:
    Maggie Mahar - Money Driven Medicine, T.R. Reid - Healing of America, Wendell Potter- Deadly Spin, Jihn Geyman, MD-Hijacked.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 10:30:13 am

    Posted By: hokies88
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    dumb hillbilly: "Could it be because coming here allows them to choose their own healthcare rather than accept what their government choose for them?"
    or the fact that they can get the best medical treatment here, doctors,facilities, etc. seems like you're grabbing straws here.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 11:09:13 am

    Posted By: Grouse
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    It's amazing to see some comments saying that more people wanting services would cause longer lines for health care. How selfish!! In reality more demand would result in more doctors. Economics 101 - higher demand would result in supply increases (doctors). Since people are not finite resources (unlike oil) the demand would never out strip supply.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 11:39:12 am

    Posted By: Indigo
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    Socialized medicine will eventually be forced upon the taxpayers here in the US, and the quality of life and economy will be greatly diminished shortly after.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 12:04:06 pm

    Posted By: Joe6Pk
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    More demand DOES NOT mean more doctors as long as the number of places in medical schools is controlled by government and AMA bureaucrats.

    Medicare for All means increased cost, rationing and long waits for care. Just like all those European socialist countries. The British National Health Service is the third largest employer IN THE WORLD. They employ more administrative/clerical staff than medical staff. That's what happens when government controls medical care. Like public employee unions, it turns into a politically controlled jobs program at taxpayer expense.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 6:33:19 pm

    Posted By: string theory
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    Medicare for All means increased cost, rationing and long waits for care.

    based on.....?

    That's what happens when government controls medical care.

    you're aware that single payer insurance is not the same as government - run healthcare, right?
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 8:45:21 pm

    Posted By: new1
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    "We pay twice as much for our health care in this country as many other industrialized countries do," Haning told reporter Paul Nyden.

    One reason is that some countries allow Pharmacist to dispense many drugs that require a doctors visit here. Saves money, but not a very good idea.

    "Other democracies spend only half as much on medical care, yet they have better health and life expectancy."

    Better health and life expectancy of any group of people doesn't automatically equate to medical care or lack of it. There are many factors involved of which this short and ill informed editorial fail to mention.
    Posted at: February 22, 2012 9:02:15 pm

    Posted By: ioanthe
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    Better health and life expectancy of any group of people doesn't automatically equate to medical care or lack of it. There are many factors involved of which this short and ill informed editorial fail to mention.

    Enlighten us.
    Posted at: February 23, 2012 7:02:04 am

    Posted By: AaronS
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    While I believe that unlike Social Security-and the subsequent programs crammed under that bill like Medicare-a constitutional argument can be made for health care, Medicare for all is not the answer.

    It is a mismanaged, fraudulent, wasteful program that is full of inefficiencies and ineptitude that has added trillions in unfunded liabilities to our national debt so I hardly see how anyone of sound mind and reasonable thinking could champion such a boondoggle of a program.
    Posted at: February 23, 2012 12:00:46 pm

    Posted By: ioanthe
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    I don't like to see people forced into buying private healthcare. It is wrong and unconstitutional, I believe, anyway.

    That being said, Medicare is still more efficient than the private system, on average.

    http://healthcare-economist.com/2006/07/27/medicares-true-administrative-costs/
    Posted at: February 23, 2012 1:03:48 pm

    Posted By: MU4WVU2
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    Medicare as we know it is going broke. Who questions that statement? Now, the proposed solution is to increase the eligibility for the program by 50 million claimants. That corrects the problem how?

    More demand results in more doctors going into medicine??? Have you been to a Dr office over the past 5 years? Most Dr offices that I visit with wife has a sign in the window "NO NEW MEDICARE/MEDICAID PATIENTS BEING ACCEPTED". Drs are running from the patients that have medicare/medicaid coverage. The professionals who provide this service are seeing their billing rates cut by 50-60%. They are losing $$$ by seeing patients with this insurance. Obamacare was to be paid for from Medicare @ half a trillion dollars. The other half in tax increases. Obama budget proposal is to further cut medicare/medicaid billing rates by 27%. The providers cannot sustain services at the rates offered. Therefore, there will be fewer Drs graduating with intent to practice medicine.
    Posted at: February 23, 2012 2:01:44 pm

    Posted By: AaronS
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    Politi­cians and the media focus on Social Security's financial health, but Medicare's future liabilities are far more ominous, at more than $89 trillion. Medicare's total unfunded liability is more than five times larger than that of Social Security. In fact, the new Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted in 2006 (Part D) alone adds some $17 trillion to the projected Medicare shortfall - an amount greater than all of Social Security's unfunded obligations.

    Like I said, no one of sound mind or reasonable thinking can champion this boondoggle.

    http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662
    Posted at: February 23, 2012 6:53:08 pm

    Posted By: new1
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    Climate and diet are just two. Can you guess of a few more?
    Posted at: February 23, 2012 8:39:51 pm

    Posted By: Tell Me
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    "Industry/unions could thrive in that atmosphere".

    Yeah! Who would want THAT!
    Posted at: February 24, 2012 1:07:22 am

    Posted By: AaronS
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    I posted this yesterday but the Gazette censors wouldn't allow it. I guess you guys are afraid of the truth.

    Politi­cians and the media focus on Social Security's financial health, but Medicare's future liabilities are far more ominous, at more than $89 trillion. Medicare's total unfunded liability is more than five times larger than that of Social Security. In fact, the new Medicare prescription drug benefit enacted in 2006 (Part D) alone adds some $17 trillion to the projected Medicare shortfall - an amount greater than all of Social Security's unfunded obligations.

    http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662
    Posted at: February 24, 2012 7:30:51 am

    Posted By: Conchop
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    I'm sure its quite safe to say, almost all Americans want to see the USA to be number one in all measures of performance and quality of life measures. According to the World Health Organization, the USA is way down in the scores. There are third world countries that have better health care ratings than what we have. All of us have seen erosion in all of the measures we use to gauge any standard of life. This is unacceptable. Our current system of insurance paid healthcare has wrung profits out of the system at the expense of our quality measures. The failures of conservative governance over the past three decades has obviously put the USA in jeopardy at all levels and all measures of quality. The GOP and their regressive and puritanical ideology cannot be trusted to deliver the work and the results needed to propel the USA to the number one position. Therefore, it is imperative that we develop a new system based on a Universal Medicare system that will be the best in the world.
    Posted at: February 24, 2012 8:10:57 am

    Posted By: MU4WVU2
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    And we will live in utopia forever and beyond. Give me your poor and downtrodden and they/we will live in a peaceful valley that is always filled with sunshine and flowers. Medicare for all. Medicare for all.
    Posted at: February 24, 2012 8:05:49 pm

    Posted By: string theory
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    MU4, would you please enlighten us as to what health care insurance policy you endorse?

    Would love to see your input.
    Posted at: February 24, 2012 8:50:25 pm

    Posted By: MU4WVU2
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    String, how about a reasonably priced 80-20 plan that has $200 personal deductible and $500/$1000 for the family.

    Preference is to have no insurance except for major calamity. That would give individual a reason to take personal care of self, shop for health care provider, audit the bill for charges.

    Now, what is the perfect policy for you and your family? When was the last time you were cost conscious when seeking medical help. Shopped around for a provider? Did you audit the bill for all the charges? Instead of going for professional charged help, when did you take an aspirin and see if you feel better the next day? If you were actually paying the bills, would you(family) have required all the visits you made last 5 years?

    Of course, I don't know you or your needs. I was talking to myself as much as you above. I don't know what a reasonable price is because I didn't shop. I have seen multi thousand bills come thru that I didn't audit and my ins paid every penny. Thats wrong
    Posted at: February 24, 2012 11:21:47 pm

    Posted By: string theory
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    MU4,

    I was thinking on terms of national policy.

    You seem to be highly critical of Medicare, what would you endorse as an alternative? Do you think that the ACA should be overturned?

    I think everyone on these threads is aware of the cost inflation associated with health care. There are good reasons to believe that a single payer system (e. g. expanding Medicare to everyone) would lower the overall costs of its delivery, as is experienced in many other countries. There are others who think that the ACA lends the best balance to universal health care because it maintains much of the private insurance industry.

    I would like to know what your opinion is on policy. You often point your rhetoric at the expense of universal health care, what do you propose as an alternative to more efficiently deliver it? Do you think that the uninsured/uninsurable should be denied treatment?

    I am just curious to know what you advocate, since you write so much in the contrary.
    Posted at: February 25, 2012 11:39:04 am

    Posted By: MU4WVU2
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    String, "national policy" is not very revealing. Do you want a national insurance program? To cover ingrown toenails? To cover total medical needs from cradle to grave? How do you pay for it?

    Do you want a government provided/controlled plan? Who gets covered?What is covered? What is not covered? How does it get funded? Who decides when, where, how services are rendered?

    Your "national policy" is a very open ended proposal that provides no certainty of what you are talking about. Care to be more specific in detailing what you are suggesting and how it is to be funded?

    Really, where have I said that I disagree with medicare? I don't believe I have. But, I have great concern about the life of medicare since it is going to be broke. On current path, medicare will consume the entire budget some day not too far out. How can it be financed.

    Uninsured question depends. Medicaid gets those who cannot afford. Those who refuse to buy coverage should legally be assessed the bill.
    Posted at: February 25, 2012 12:36:57 pm

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